Abigail M. Schilling

Teri Tith: I want to welcome you to this session. This is going to be a dialogue just like the blogosphere is, so I hope you bring questions. Today is my birthday so as my present I'd like to ask the first and the last person. I blog just for fun, me, myself, and I. About my rural life inLivermore. I'm 40something, I define myself by what I do. I'm a blogger, and I have chickens.

Laura Scott: I've been doing the Childless by Choice project. It's a research and documentary project. I did a road trip and interviewed as many people and experts as I could find who were voluntarily childless or childfree. I wanted to answer the question "What happens when parenthood moves from an assumption to a decision?" This is fairly new phenomenal that we're approaching it as a decision. What does this decision look like? What are the motives? The pro/cons? What does life look like? I'm writing a book on this due out in Fall 09.

Laurie White: I'm from DC and I'm a contributing BlogHer editor for pets and extended family. I'm the woman accidentally without children. I fully expected that at this stage in my life I would have children, but things change. When I'm feelingsnarky I say it's because I say I dated children. :) There are a lot of assumptions made about women without children. A lot of solicitous advice comes my way all the time on how I can solve this problem. ambivalent area - grieving something that didn't happen. gray area.

Suebob Davis: I always knew even when I was little that I didn't want to have kids. at BlogHer 06 mommybloggers bust out and I think its time that we bust out. it's our time. at least a quarter of us don't have kids.

Teri: first question I get to ask! are you an invisible childfree woman or have you ever blogged about it?

Attendee: a friend of mine wrote a book called pride and joy, stories of woman without children. I'm in that book, and so I've really come out. if you google search me that chapter comes up. I'm looking forward to Laura's book.

Attendee: I came out publicly--Savvy Auntie a site I launched was the first site for non-moms. the idea behind it was that I'm come off of a day with my nephew and nieces and then have Sunday brunch with my girlfriends and it was like aunts in the city. we're quite a population with clout. I call us aunts because we don't dislike children. a lot of spend a lot of time and energy on children. I blog about my company, I call myself anauntrepreneur. It's a site for non-moms. ivillage even feels like it's all about moms even though it says it's just for women. doesn't feel comfortable for me. I applaud you ladies and all the ladies in the room who talk about what it's like to be a non-mom.

Laurie: I wrote a post about this on my BlogHer about this. I got some wonderful responses from mothers too. it opened up the topic for me. I still don't write a lot about on my personal blog.

Attendee susanne resinan: as long as I can remember I didn't want to be a parent, but I m passionate about children. the misconception is that if you don't have children you hate children and you don't want your money to go towards kids. I think it's made me a great advocate. I can worry about the broader picture. I've written extensively about it. if I got pregnant I would have an abortion. I don't want to be a mother, I want to be a mother to the world.

Attendee: I came out in the NYT about a month ago. the story is about living without children after infertility treatments do not work. it's interesting because most infertility blogs are about trying to conceive and I know I can't. there are so many assumptions. it would be nice to know when you meet folks first hand that you have something in common. we need tattoos.

Attendee candy harrington: this conversation is interesting to me because I don't think I've come out. we definitely chose our path. I'm very overwhelmed here by the mommybloggers. the whole exhibit room was targeted towards mommybloggers. why does having children and not having children have to do with our blogs? I've never made it an issue.

Attendee jane gassner (midlifebloggers.com): I forgot to have children. I was married and child bearing age and then I wasn't married and one day I woke up and I was in menopause. I've written about it on my personal blog to some extent about the angst I have about fitting in. I feel really out of themommyblogger circle. my sister asks me, "are you sure you know how to hold a baby?" the good thing for me about this panel is that I will start to write more about what it feels like to be childless in a society where you are mostly valued for your children and your ability to produce children.

Suebob: people always respond "oh, you'd be a good mom." I know they're trying to compliment but it seems dismissive.

Attendee robin mcintire: like Suebob I realized at an early age I wasn't going to have children. It was harder for me in my late 20s and early 30s when people said "when are you going to have your children." when I said I'm not they said, "how could you be some selfish?" I would make my life, their lives, and my husbands life miserable. some of us are kind of lucky that that hormonal surge to be a mother never came over me. I never got it. some friends said I'm on the fence and then boom overnight all they could think about was babies babies babies. you have to remember that for most people the perpetuation of the species is imperative and people who choose to not have children are monsters.

Laura: what I found out was the majority of the woman said, "I don't have the desire or maternal instinct" so I asked a fertilityexper t at Duke if there is such thing as a desire. he said we are driven to sex and we are wired to love the children we have. I think for myself, and some of you, that have never felt that urge, we question whether that really exists. it may exist for others, it doesn't exist for me. part of my research was tracking two couples who were undecided, on the fence. 3 years.. one couple decided to have a kid. I talked to them when the kid was 1 year and they said its very different when its your kid, you love your kid because it's yours. that exists. because I chose not to have a child doesn't mean my life is empty because I don't have that component in my life. we can still love children.

Laurie: I think this is where we have common ground with those who have chosen and those it happens to. that question of what value does your life have if you don't have kids.

Attendee jennifer (the word cellar): I was interested in robin's comment that she feels lucky she didn't have the hormonal surge. I keep waiting for that surge. I'm in a strange place of indecision, and I hate it here. I really don't know and I need to make up my mind. I'd like to hear from anyone who has been in a similar place. what is it like on the other side?

Attendee: I'm the double agent here. I'm the spy. I'm a mom of 2, grandma of 1, and twins on the way, but I don't blog about my kids. adrianshouse.blogspot.com I blog about my life and me, sometimes my kids are on there, but it's about me. I do find that there are other things to blog about and I'm having a hard time hearing it from the other side (mommybloggers) here. just because I'm a mommy doesn't mean I'm a mommyblogger.

Attendee: I wonder how I refer to myself without going into a long explanation. I'm in jane's boat--I never had kids. I had the surge, but I was hormonal and I didn't want to intentionally bring a kid into the world being an impoverished grad student single mother. now despite the reports of 70 yearolds having children (people always say its not too late!) it is too late for me. I don't feel like the childfree labels apply because I didn't choose and I'm not childless because I wasn't unable to have children.

Laura: I deal with that in my book. how do I respond to the question do you have kids there are lot of great answers for that, and you'll find one that is you. you can just say, "no, and you?" if you just say no it can be awkward. people assume it's fertility and give you that sad face. I come up with all kind of stuff. "i like kids, I just don't want to own one."

Attendee: I'm amy gahran. I came to this session because I have no children but I love having children I my life. this is a culture shock to me because no one says to me I would make a great mom! to me, the thought of being pregnant scares the hell out of me. that is hard for a lot of women to say but I think no fucking way. you're supposed to say "oh, glowing!" no.

Attendee: maybe it has to do with coming out publicly, but I actually talk to women a lot who will acknowledge or admit that even though they've had children they're not necessarily happy with their decision. they don't admit this to their children, obviously, but they need an outlet. to me, its a myth that if you have children you love them ferociously. there are a lot of happiness studies that have come out that look at this issues. in the daily task of raising children people aren't happy at doing. but after people have raised children, people's lifesatisfaction says they are happy having done it.

Laurie: a lot of times mothers come out to me. it can be patronizing. its like they're trying to commiserate. I hear it a lot. it's a tough conversation to have. sometimes I feel jealous.

Attendee denise: talk about spies. I have 6 kids. but I am a huge advocate for you. I have raised my children to believe that having children is not the primary goal of adulthood. my three oldest are pretty sure they will never have kids. I'm not sure if I love that. part of me worries that I was too strong with my advocacy but I'm very proud of them for hitting 18, 23, 25 and not thinking "okay in five years I wanna have kids." the second thing I want to say is to word cellar: that I'm such a huge advocate because my best friends didn't want kids and then they changed their mind. I didn't want to congratulate them. I didn't know what to say.

Laura: as an advocate, is it around the idea of choice or is around feminism, what are advocating?

Denise: it's choice, completely. I have boys and girls and I raised them to not have expectations. I didn't want them to get married and have manipulative in-laws.

Attendee: my mother shared with me really early that having kids was boring. I never wanted kids. I write about other things. I don't feel a loss. and I don't write about it. I know a lot of women who don't care and wont babysit if you asked.

Teri: do you go to baby showers?

Attendee: no, and I don't go to weddings either. if anyone is here from BlogHer, please put animals in another category, not with moms.

Attendee: I've been childless by choice my whole life. my career has taken a family turn--my job is geared towards helping mothers and its something I've never wanted to do. I told theceo this is not really my thing and he said you're perfect, you'll keep us honest. it's been fine til now, a partner found out I wasn't a mother and it was the end of the conversation. it's an issue I'm started to struggle with. I just started a blog but it's secret because of my job. I'm supposed to be here meeting mom bloggers!

Laurie: since were talking about bogging childfree. I interact a lot in real life with mommybloggers. one of the dangers, and one of the reasons why this conversation is important to have--much that happens on line reflects what happens in real life. I make it a point to go beyond the boundaries. I've read some negative things. how do we exist together in this spaces?

Teri: I'd like to ask for questions for the panelists.

Attendee sky: I do have a child, thanking you for letting me be in your space. I'm in a quilt group, when we formed there were only 2 mothers, now it's a lot mothers, and we're starting to alienate the non-moms. I don't want to be that way. we're not trying to dominate the conversations. it's just hard to kick out of that gear. help!

Attendee ayelet: I've been married twice, I was a great stepmom but I gave them back in the divorce. I write a blog about being happy and single in my 40s. I always thought I'd have a children, but now I can be a mom to a lot of people in the world. I get discrimination in the workplace. when are you going to have husband number 3? I'm tyring to figure out different things in my life.

Laura: what we're examining as demographic, there are assumptions in this society, one is that we need to procreate, the other is that you need a partner. you need partner and children to be a complete, whole, person so there is a stigma with being an divorced, single, without child person. it's hard being out there. we get comments from parents that say you're so lucky, but on the other side there is a question about whether you're a whole human being.

Suebob: yeah, I feel like there is an assumption that you're not responsible if you don't have kids. you're not quite an adult yet.

Laurie: or, there is an assumption that you have done something wrong. people assume still that there is something wrong with you. there was an article in the Atlantic Monthly that said we should settle at a certain age. I had a negative reaction to this piece. it said you would learn to like this guy. my response was that I will settle for awesome. we're expected to take the shack instead of the mansion. people still give advice: go to china, freeze your eggs.

Attendee anne: I write a personal blog. when people ask me if I have kids, I say "no, I have a cat." when people ask why, I tell them we decided not to. we love our lifestyle. we love to travel and sleep in. my family had a hard time supporting me, but they've come around. I support my friends and family that have children and I totally support that. I'm so happy this session was here because its so important to me. I wrote a post about this but I've never published it, should I publish it?

Laura: I have a suggestion. speak "I" "I" "I". a lot of times people want to be a champion advocate for the childfree. instead go deep and use "I," find out what it is about you and your choice that you want to express to the world.

Teri:I want to thank BlogHer for this session on the record.

Attendee: in response to the lady who said "how do I not talk about my kids all the time?" I have a response to that. When a friend of mine became a mom, I decided to interact with her as who she was always, not as a mom. I'm ambivalent to kids. but we ending up splitting. she didn't have the time to focus on these other things that used to be a part of her. she did change. I realized she needed the energy to raise this kid. it comes down to how you want to spend your energy. for me, I want to use all my energy for myself and for the community. if you're a mom, you're going to change and also stay the same. you don't always have to identify with the mom part of you.

Attendee: I call myself a SINK (single income no kids). I love kids. but I didn't want to be a single parent. I love hanging out with the kids I know. I can play with them and then give them back. my friends' kids are kids you want to be around because they've been parented well. Icouldn't be friends if the kids ran the house. my friend is not just a mother, she talks to me about other stuff. she asks me about me. it's like with married friends, I often have to adapt because I'm more flexible because I'm single. friends that appreciate that are the friends I keep.

Laurie: any relationships in your life are the ones where the communication is good. its hard to tell your closest friends. but no one wants to hear about your kids of your relationship or whatever 24/7.

Attendee liz rizzo: I wanted to address the question about being on the fence. I can understand that. I'm 37 and I don't think its too late I live in LA. my philosophy has always been that if I have kids, they will be a blessing. but if not,that's okay. I'm extremely career driven. I know that I'm going to make the best choices for me and my life will go the way it goes, and I will go in a positive direction and things will work out for me.

Attendee: I dealt with that on the fence ambivalence too, but I realized it was just guilt.

Teri: when I was in my 20s I realized I couldn't have kids. but I didn't want to identify as infertile. I was kind of backed into realizing I did have a choice. and now I'm married to someone who doesn't want kids and so it's easy. it helped me a lot that he was so sure.

Laura: there is wonderful wisdom in this room. having documented this undecided couples I know how hard it is. indecision is a state of being. if you're married or in partnership you're making choices everyday when you take the pill. if you think about it as a series of little choices you can own it more. studies show that women who chose to be childless have higher life satisfaction than women who just felt like they would take whatever life throws at them. if you own choices, then you're going to love the outcome. you feel empowered.

Teri: last question: there are a lot of parents that feel accomplish and achievements through their kids and watching them thrive. what do you on the panel get satisfaction from?

Laurie: my family! I have lots of family responsibilities. lots of extended family. animals!

Laura: I get this question a lot. fulfillment. legacy. flippantly I can say I'm writing a book. but that's just surface stuff. what I'm really and most happy and proud and fulfilled about is the partnership with my husband that is beyond gender roles. ifI'd had a child I don't know if we could have had this gender neutral marriage. I mentor teens and I love advocating childfree and I love mentoring the pregnant girls. I'm proud of opening possibilities.

Suebob: That question almost has an assumption that if you don't have kids what do you have?

Teri: I volunteer at the opera company--I work backstage. there were some local kids there helping there and someone asked me if I was a mom (of the kids) and I said oh no, I'm just a Teri.

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